Curse

Winter King · Jun 23, 2005, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by The One True Mango

If you want to crash the market, you have to do it in a localized, small area. Get about 100 people, and simultaneously buy all of whatever in ascalon city. Newbs (like me) only have access to one set of traders- those in Ascalon City. If you drive up the prices there, none of the newbs can buy anything, and they get the impression of a much more frugal market. They learn to save, and then when they get out into other areas, they're richer than everybody else but have nothing, and aren't buying dyes because they can't afford to waste their gold on appearances, and the newbs end up stabilizing the economy.

I'm pretty sure traders aren't city specific but region specific.

EmperorTippy · Jun 24, 2005, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winter King

I'm pretty sure traders aren't city specific but region specific.

They are region specific.

Everyone who has aggreed to do this with me has all the stuff they want so the lost gold isn't an issue for any of us.

The comment that this would only last two weeks is our about low-middle estimate 4-5 weeks if we are lucky. This is supposed to be a temperory fix until ANet implaments gold sinks that work.

No weapon is worth over 100K.

ANets patches are what caused this problem in the first place. Pre-Patch good item drops weren't that hard to find. Post Patch good items are very rare increasing their price to higher levels.

Would 2000 black dye work you think? Dropped in the market until the price hits 2K and kept their.

Total recsources gatherd for this venture hasnt been caculated but well we have over 100 superior vigiors - over 100 superior absorbtions - about 2000 black dye - 250 each of shards and ectoplasm - 2K each of all the rest of the rare crafting items except gems - 30 of those nice gold max damage stormbows - and lots of various other things. Plus so far 25 million gold in liquid captial to finiance on the fly fixes and keep prices in line.

We fully intend to lose most if not all of the items and gold but as we all have between 300 and 400K leftover after this we don't have any real problems expecially with nothing left to buy.

Sholtar · Jun 24, 2005, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Here's my guess as to what your plan would accomplish. I'm not talking out of a lot of experience with this game in particular as I just started playing a week or so ago. However, my guess is that the main group that will be affected by this is the older players. Since you're talking about items like black dye, superior vigors, etc, unless you drive the prices down very significantly my guess is that most new players won't be able to buy them anyways because I suspect that most new players don't manage their money with long-term goals. If you drive any prices up, it will just make the new players unable to buy anything. This, however, won't affect the new players all that much because they don't really need to buy much anyways, other than things with static prices. However, at the same time, the older, richer players who can afford to take advantage of your market fluctuations will get richer. When you flood the market, they'll buy low and sell in a few weeks. This will overall just cause a more distinct group of older players, which will to an extent make it harder for newer players to reach the standards of the older players. Your plan would work fine in a real world economy, but game economics is a completely different sphere. Many economic principles can't be applied in game economics. It's good that you're trying, but you need to put more thought into how the game economics work. I'm sure there's a way to stabilize the economy for a while at least, and I'm sure you could do it with the resources you have, but I don't think this is the way to do it. However, you could just donate all of your valuable stuff to people and while you wouldn't balance the economy, you'd sure do a good job on the popularity market

hydrak · Jun 24, 2005, 04:34 AM // 04:34

EmperorTippy, stop smoking whatever it is that you are smoking. Check your IQ lately?

Listen, with your 500 vigors or whatever to flood the market, all you would do with that is making 500 more people with vigor runes. With the rune trader implemented, prices are controlled by demands. So after all 500 of your vigors are bought and used by the consumers, the price of a superior vigor at the rune trader is still 90-100k.

You, however, will be appreciated by the 500 people who bought your vigors for cheap.

Sholtar · Jun 24, 2005, 04:55 AM // 04:55

hydrak, your economics are significantly off. An influx of 500 superior vigors won't make the market have everything the same plus 500 cheap superior vigors. It's a balance and the scenario you presented is way off. Of course, you're right in that the repercussions would be relatively minior in scale, but the reasoning behind what you said is way off. In addition, kindly try not to insult people because you think their ideas are incorrect. That's a quick way to get a lot of people to not like you. Just carry on a polite conversation, it works wonders.

hydrak · Jun 24, 2005, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sholtar

hydrak, your economics are significantly off. An influx of 500 superior vigors won't make the market have everything the same plus 500 cheap superior vigors. It's a balance and the scenario you presented is way off. Of course, you're right in that the repercussions would be relatively minior in scale, but the reasoning behind what you said is way off. In addition, kindly try not to insult people because you think their ideas are incorrect. That's a quick way to get a lot of people to not like you. Just carry on a polite conversation, it works wonders.

Tell me one thing. After those 500 superior vigors are used up from armor upgrading, what do you expect the price of one superior vigor would be at the rune trader?

I'm 100%sure that there are more than 500 people who would buy a cheap (20k as Emperortippy said) to use immediately or save for future use.

The Ages · Jun 24, 2005, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Go ahead, I'll just stokepile materials than sell them off at 5000x there real worth when you take all the supply

All you will really do is transfer your funds over to me :P

hydrak · Jun 24, 2005, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ages

Go ahead, I'll just stokepile materials than sell them off at 5000x there real worth when you take all the supply

All you will really do is transfer your funds over to me :P

How will he take all the supply? by buying from the NPC merchants or real people?

Sholtar · Jun 24, 2005, 05:14 AM // 05:14

hydrak, after all 500 have influxed, it will be cheap, but if people buy, the value will approach regular anyway and people won't buy so readily. Hence why I said it's not like 500 cheap vigors will just appear.

The Ages, what he's been saying all along is that it's not one specific item, it's several random items so you can't stockpile unless you're a really good guesser.

hydrak · Jun 24, 2005, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sholtar

hydrak, after all 500 have influxed, it will be cheap, but if people buy, the value will approach regular anyway and people won't buy so readily. Hence why I said it's not like 500 cheap vigors will just appear.

How will he introduce this "influx"?

Winter King · Jun 24, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Everyone who has aggreed to do this with me has all the stuff they want so the lost gold isn't an issue for any of us.

If this is the case I could use about 150k. I want to start a guild and could use a bankroll. Also, the rest would help with some 15k armor. You'd have my gratitude.

I'm serious. If so many people have money they don't need, there's plenty of people who could really use it. Play a mission and reward the best players.

Quote:

Total recsources gatherd for this venture hasnt been caculated but well we have over 100 superior vigiors - over 100 superior absorbtions - about 2000 black dye - 250 each of shards and ectoplasm - 2K each of all the rest of the rare crafting items except gems - 30 of those nice gold max damage stormbows - and lots of various other things. Plus so far 25 million gold in liquid captial to finiance on the fly fixes and keep prices in line.

I have no idea how the game got to the point where so many players have enough wealth that this seems like a good idea. It mimics RL perceived finacial barriers almost closely enough to sicken me. If you really have all this stuff, and want to do something worthwhile, why don't you share it with all the players who came in after the economy nerfs and didn't have the chance to build a cash pile? You may not upset the economy as much (though it's argueably how much your plan will upset it) but you will level the playing field between the Guild Wars Aristocracy and the players who didn't have the chance to become wastefully loaded in-game.

All the complaining about the economy ticks me off. Gold isn't valueless; rather, it's incredibly hard for a large portion of players to get it, while people who have been in long enough sit on huge stacks.

Sholtar · Jun 24, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

How will he introduce this "influx"?

By selling all of the item that he has to the vendor. Or at least, if not all of it, a substantial amount.

NoChance · Jun 24, 2005, 05:50 AM // 05:50

the best way to control inflation is to convince everyone to buy dwarven ale.
go into towns and convince everyone to buy drinks (perhaps by first buying people some free drinks) -- if you can get a whole drinking party going, then you're all set.

you won't really change the economy all that much, but it's a fun thing to do -- see whether you have the skills to convince people to essentially destroy their own money.

and you can make your own small contribution to the economy by not selling stuff.
instead, aside from saving funds you need to buy yourself 15k armor, trash all the stuff you don't need. that way you are not contributing to inflation.

perhaps another way is to sell stuff at higher prices than they are worth, buy crap with the gold you get... and trash that crap.

all in all, you really can't do anything significant (the ale idea is fun, at least, though -- like convincing people to have naked dance parties).

Anet needs more money sinks.

maybe have it so you can pay for sponserships... like they do for highways -- you get your name posted for a certain amount of time ingame, at certain locations. e.g. on signs: "welcome to Lion's Arch (sign sponsored by Joe Blow)".

everyone likes to see their name publicized. maybe if you pay enough money, you can have npc's talk about your prowess. "have you heard of this great warrior Joe Blow? he's kicking some devourer ass!"

The Ages · Jun 24, 2005, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sholtar

The Ages, what he's been saying all along is that it's not one specific item, it's several random items so you can't stockpile unless you're a really good guesser.

You dont have to guess just wait, When they dump all there supply into a merchant buy in mass amounts what they dumped (Sense its going to be rather cheap) All thats left after that is wait till they start buying mass amounts of that item again, Sell and make a profit.

Or a less Risky way is to just not Sell your Materials and wait for them to jack up the demand before selling.

In reallity they are just dimishing there own cash, and those that are to Impationt to wait untill it switches to the next item.

On a side note, Im sure it will take alot more than 5 People to Make a big Impact on Buy/Sell rates to Material Venders.

hydrak · Jun 24, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ages

You dont have to guess just wait, When they dump all there supply into a merchant buy in mass amounts what they dumped (Sense its going to be rather cheap) All thats left after that is wait till they start buying mass amounts of that item again, Sell and make a profit.

Or a less Risky way is to just not Sell your Materials and wait for them to jack up the demand before selling.

Exactly, Emperortippy basically gives you his gold in an indirect way. Prices remain the same after all these transfers.

Dazzler · Jun 24, 2005, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Yes, please let me know when you launch your terrorist attack against the GW economy. Many people are very interested in knowing how it works, but unless you let us know, I am sure that no one will even notice that anything happened.

By the way, I think after the next patch, the rune market is going to crash. The prices are so high right now because of all the PVP demand. Once PVP'ers can get runs through PVP rewards, demand will drop. I guess it won't be a real crash, but I do not expect Sup Absorption to remain 100k at the rune trader.

But I guess if you are smart, you can just "launch" your strike to coincide with the patch and then claim that you were the cause of the price drop.

Aug · Jun 24, 2005, 03:03 PM // 15:03

By introducing X number of a commodity into the market all at once.

He claims that he and his cohorts have been hording particular items for some period of time. He thinks that they've now horded enough of those materials to cause a prolonged surplus, thus driving the prices down for a long time.

bobrath · Jun 24, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Lets assume you can flood the market at random and make prices appear to spike and valley in a "scary" fashion (ie a visible dramatic change in price), but there won't be panic:

- Those folks that watch the markets and are aware of relative values will jump in opposite you to buy up the items you have driven prices down on. If they're patient enough to sit in town and watch the traders prices, they're patient enough to out last your group.
- Those folks that don't watch the market and just play the game will make their decision based only on their momentary interaction with the NPC traders. They want steel, see that its really expensive and look at their small gold pile... they don't buy and go try to salvage or craft some instead. Flip side, they see the price is something they can afford and buy up as much as they need to craft their armor. Then in either case, they forget about the price they just paid or got for selling.

The failing points in this are that the "unwashed masses" you are hoping to panic are for the most part unaware of prices and their relative settings and the "item speculators" are patient enough to take advantage of your actions.

Wait... what am I saying, you and a group of in-game millionaires are going to drive prices down on rare items.... You go boy!

Dan Mega · Jun 24, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

[QUOTE=RMThompson]

It just annoys me when people try to STABILIZE economies of virtual worlds yet as a country we voted in the worst economical President in history.[QUOTE]

You know I really wish people would actually do some research instead of just repeating what CNN and Michael Moore have told them to. Bush is a terrible government spender but the bad economy started during the waning months of the Clinton administration. The economy was fuled mostly by the dot.com bubble and companies illegally inflating profits without being checked- DURING the Clinton administration.

Anyway the economy just needs an auction house and all is fixed!

Dazzler · Jun 24, 2005, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Mega

It just annoys me when people try to STABILIZE economies of virtual worlds yet as a country we voted in the worst economical President in history.

You know I really wish people would actually do some research instead of just repeating what CNN and Michael Moore have told them to. Bush is a terrible government spender but the bad economy started during the waning months of the Clinton administration. The economy was fuled mostly by the dot.com bubble and companies illegally inflating profits without being checked- DURING the Clinton administration.

Anyway the economy just needs an auction house and all is fixed!

It would also help if EmperorTippy and his millionare buddies would flood the oil market and lower the price of oil "to scare us"